thm
Born on April 19, 2008•37247 Karma
Even without a battery, I could easily imagine designing an efficient single slice toaster that could handily brown a pop tart on a 300W budget.
If you like then "golden," perhaps the entire box.
the original OG's were before the web.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190909191211/https://kb.iu.edu...
CF serves something it convinced customers they need.
Static blogs hiding behind bot protection (in some cases blocking legit users from GrapheneOS because it's difficult to fingerprint them) because someone convinced them they'll be DDoSed by bots otherwise is a loss to the Internet.
A lot of self-hosters running CF tunnels because they don't know better also contributes.
> It's more healthy to start the conversation of _why_ CF services are valuable.
Begging the question. It's what TFA is about - telling people they need CF.
Are you saying CF documentation is better than Computer Science / Networking education resources? Why don't people know better? I thought the tunnels are mostly used to bypass NAT's.
> Static blogs hiding behind bot protection
I'm not sure what is the proportion of the static vs dynamic sites, but I would argue that for wordpress CF is adding real value.
While not free, you can do with with TCP HAProxy streams on a cheap VPS. A lot of people using them to bypass NAT don't realise that Cloudflare decrypt the traffic on the way - that's what I meant about them not knowing better.
A lot of self-hosters running CF tunnels because they don't know better also contributes.
Of course, they probably don't, but the fact that they can and that their policies now influence XX% of internet traffic is bad for the open internet.
That is something that should not be allowed to exist. It's one of the reasons monopolies (or even majority-opolies) are bad. It's a weapon hanging on the wall, waiting to be used.
Are there network effects like what happens with Microsoft in the business computing space? With Microsoft, I'm also aware of a great amount of anti-competitive behavior, and though I haven't seen that from Cloudflare personally and haven't heard accusations of it, I also haven't paid attention.
When I learned econ 101 in high school there was a concept of a "natural monopoly" like an electricity utility, a concept that was probably mostly post-hoc rationalization of the regulatory structures that were chosen a century ago, but it at least was a coherent narrative. I can't see any coherent narrative about Cloudflare's services being a natural monopoly. So I'm left wondering if they are just way better at what they do than anybody else, and perhaps the space isn't big enough to drive a competitor to enter it?
I hope somebody on HN has a much better explanation of this than I do.
Everyone using the free service likes that, of course, but honestly I wish we'd make it illegal to do. It's heavily used as a way to steal small markets simply by being successful in a different large one.
I can see the benefit, but if you made free services illegal companies like google would just offer gmail for a penny.
You'd could go farther and say that no one should be allowed to provide a good or service for less than it costs them to provide it. That still has problems though. For example, Netflix sends servers to ISPs to set up on their network so that segments of that ISP's customers are pulling data from one of those boxes distributing the load. ISPs are happy to do it because it means fewer customers call them to complain about slow speeds/buffering issues with netflix. If netflix wanted to start selling CDN services to others, having all those boxes at every major ISP in the nation means the cost to deliver that service will be much lower for netflix than it would for some new start up. You can't really make it illegal to offer a service at a price lower than it would cost the poorest and least efficient/capable would-be competitor though.
We'd also risk losing a lot. Everyone would be forced to pay youtube some amount proportionate to what it costs for youtube to exist. There are also extremely expensive to run services like the internet archive which would be bad to price people out of
For Internet Archive: IA is a non-profit that currently runs fine on donations, not ads, and in a healthier environment they'd get subsidies because they serve a clear public benefit, one which the government also relies on fairly frequently. They're a wildly different category of business than Cloudflare, both obviously and legally, and I think they'd be fine. And we'd be significantly better off if they had competition, because that'd serve as a distributed, duplicated backup.
I'm not claiming it'd be trivial, or perfect. I'm claiming it'd be worth the effort.
I don't think advertising is inherently bad, and at some point you get ambiguous about "is this advertising or is it just describing something so I can find it in a search engine" and it's literally impossible to eliminate it all. and being able to tell people with problem X that solution Y exists can be a good thing, in moderation. it's more that the current maximally-invasive insanity and e.g. tons of highly distracting billboards are probably a net loss for humanity. São Paulo shows that it's quite nice without it, for example.
Which is very nearly the only reason to have governments: forcing restrictions that lead to better results in aggregate.
(malicious control is another reason, but you kinda can't argue public benefit there)
What regulation? Be specific.
CloudFlare provides significant utility to me. I chose to use them. Explain why you think someone else needs to butt into this relationship.
I’d blame the bad actors, rather than service providers that alleviate the problem.
I am unaware of such a capability of Cloudflare.
I believe it is the site administrators who have inserted Cloudflare in between their sites and their users.
Usually it is done for rational reasons of establishing a protection against bots. But what is less rational, in my opinion, is when everyone uses the same provider for that.
Because it indirectly turns Cloudflare into a monopoly. And monopolies often converge to a state when they start to abuse their position.